I, of course, have opinions about this because in an LDS setting a husband's pornography use very quickly becomes a women's issue. But that's not what I'm going to talk about. I just want to put up two posts for your comparing pleasure:
This one is from an LDS man who has obviously done his homework and wants other LDS men to wake up and make actual (not just symptom-treating) progress
This one and
this one are from an LDS man who, as far as I can tell, wants to blame LDS women (because they refuse sex and get fat) for the fact that their husbands use pornography and lie about it (I mean the problem couldn't possibly be the man's choice, it MUST be that his wife overreacts to it)
Guess which site I like better?? :-)
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8 comments:
I didn't read the second and third articles because I'm not in the mood to be outraged today (the emotion I imagine I would feel based on your description) but the first one was very good.
I'm with Kim. I only read the first because I knew what the other guy would say, and frankly, he isn't worth our time. This is something a think about a lot more now as the mother of a boy. I want to do everything in my power to help him stay far, far away from this.
I know, right? I think that one of my key issues about this (that I'm determined to help J avoid) is squeamishness in LDS culture about sexuality that leads to kids with NO knowledge of sex.....and then also the association of worthiness with virginity (for a number of years). Those two things, while well-intentioned, do lasting damage on a number of fronts.
I think openness and a healthy approach to sexuality while children are young is a good starting point (both my kids know anatomical names for their body parts, as well as non-cutesy euphemisms that they understand are the words we use in public), and then a focus on the idea that you make choices about abstaining from sex based on a healthy self-image rather than fear of condemnation from your church community.
I liked the first article, too. It shares some helpful information especially about porn being a symptom, with the cause being repressed negative emotions. But, he offers no more actual evidence than I do.
Your characterization of my post is not accurate. I don't blame women, and I don't excuse men, and I say repeatedly that porn is bad.
I do suggest that some harmful false assumptions are sometimes made by women who discover their husband has seen pictures of other women.
M--I agree with and like the idea of teaching a positive and openness about sexuality. Sometimes our overreacting paranoia about porn can harm those attempts.
“Seeing a picture of a pretty woman can often involve absolutely zero emotional attachment. It just feels good. That's all."
"Now, if the wife regularly refuses physical intimacy for many days at a time and doesn't show any skin in her own bedroom, the man's reactions to seeing pictures of other women might be a bit more like this:
"Well, if she doesn't care about me, I might as well check out some pictures. They're fake and actually not that fun, but at least they're willing. I know they don't care about me, but neither does she.""
"Having said all that, let's be clear that a wife who is healthy and keeps herself in basic good condition is far more physically attractive than one who is lazy and fat. Women should keep themselves in shape and a wife's appearance strongly influences her husband's physical attraction to her."
Sorry, but I don't think that I'm mis-characterizing your post AT ALL. It's sort of like someone "apologizing" by saying "I'm sorry you got upset" or "I'm sorry that you feel bad." That's not an apology, it's an attempt to blame the person who has been hurt, while making them think you care.
In your post there's a lot of "yes this is bad," but there's also a lot of "it's not as bad as everyone thinks."
I get the idea, from some of your responses, that you think that some pornography use is normal/excusable. General Authorities at all levels are quite clear that it is not. At all. If you think that you can "handle it" or are somehow an exception to this rule, you're deceiving yourself. It does nothing other than teach men to view women as objects. Of course, your posts indicate this mindset, so maybe that's why pornography doesn't seem to bother you?
You also insist that women should control their emotional response to a man’s pornography use. I would offer the idea that she’s more upset about her “together forever” being smeared by smut than by any preoccupation with “competition,” and that any refusal of sex comes not from punishment but from feelings of emotional betrayal. You conveniently ignore that a man can choose to do something other than look at porn in response to "the tragic emotional damage she causes to him when she refuses sex".
Are men incapable of choosing their reactions? It's just women that should "man up" and manage their emotions? No. You are, in a word, wrong.
Oh, and the "you're gonna scar your kids because you're paranoid about porn" comment....I saw it. Not gonna go there. Again, despite knowing nothing about me, you're accusing me of being a bad mother. You seem to like that M.O.
M: Amen, Sister! I happen to think that pretty much any woman's strong emotional reaction to discovering her husband's porn problem is justified. I believe it would be nearly impossible for a woman to overreact--pornograpghy and the lust it feeds are that deadly. Jesus Christ himself declared that looking on a woman to lust after her was akin to adultery. I really don't get why we're even having a debate about this in the Church. Did Christ say it or didn't He? Are we going to follow Him or aren't we? One cannot follow Christ and consume pornography. Period.
Strong Man: if you're following these comments, I encourage you to do something that will require more strength than you've ever exerted n your life--and more humility as well. Find out where the local meetings of Sexaholics Anonymous are happening and go to several. You will never talk about pornography or a woman's response to it in the same way again. You will see what porn does to those who lie about it to themselves and others. You will also see the joy and enthusiasm that accompany recovery when the addict puts his hand in God's and let's Him change the addict on the inside after so many failed attempts to fix himself.
Also, I've read you comments on another site and ask you to consider the following:
"If I go more than a couple days without my cigarettes, I start to go crazy!"
"If I go more than a couple days without my whiskey, I start to go crazy!"
"If I go more than a couple days without my cocaine, I start to go crazy!"
"If I go more than a couple days without my heroin, I start to go crazy!"
"If I go more than a couple days without my lotto tickets, I start to go crazy!"
"If I go more than a couple days without hitting the casino, I start to go crazy!"
"If I go more than a couple days without sex, I start to go crazy!"
You can't tell me the last guy (look familiar?) has no problem. Besides a lust-driven compulsion for sex--either with wife or self (it doesn't matter as long it ends the right way)--that guy has a grand case of denial the size of Texas messing up his eyesight. Sexaholics Anonymous could save his Mormon life, his Mormon marriage and Mormon soul!
That last comment was mine. Not sure why my name didnt show up. Andrew
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